PDA

View Full Version : Moose's VAC Ban



Fornaught
April 16th, 2013, 06:17 PM
One of our Admins, Moose, a person who is widely know in our community now has a VAC "ban on record". This post is to detail everything I know of the situation, and what has been done by our league to date.

I have just returned from a long business trip on an extremely demanding job, and now only have time to make this post today. I have been in contact with our senior admins while they dealt with this situation, and they took good interim steps. All that is missing is an official wrap up, which this is.

Actions previously taken.
In my absence last week, Senior Admins Redrum and Snowblindfrog took actions to remove Moose as a UGC Forum admin, and as an Admin on our Website. Since Moose's account was already VAC banned, he could not play in a TF2 match and since our rosters were locked for playoffs, he could not be added under any aliased account. Moose also voluntarily removed himself from any admin duties, he removed himself from leading his team. From the day of his ban, moose was no longer playing tf2.

The vac ban itself.
I have no access to any other information than what moose has provided about his ban.
Quote from Moose:

Hey guys,
I know you won't care what I say, but let me explain what I know:

The only thing I've ever installed besides vanilla TF2 was OpenPlugin, and that was back in March to test it and make sure that it wasn't a wallhack (and something that UGC ought to be concerned with). I didn't use it in normal/match play, and the way you guys are talking is making it seem as though Valve is okay with the plugin. I'm just as confused as anyone else here is.

I've been working as closely as I can with Valve to get this reversed, but they are still unwilling to give me any information as to the grounds of my ban, so I can't really figure out what to do now. I've heard through the grapevine that I'm not the only community admin that was VAC banned this last batch (one of the head admins of one of the game's largest pub communities also got the banhammer last week). Hopefully this is something that I can hopefully figure out and get reversed, but Valve doesn't seem willing to budge and apparently they don't even consider reversals.

On a side note, I love you guys. I'd totally forgotten about my great pre-comp career LFT thread, and this picture is brilliant:

moose_down
Rest assured I'm upset enough about this incident that unless I can get this reversed I'll probably be taking a break from TF2 for a while.

I have no way to verify any of the above other than this:
I do know it is true that Moose told me he was testing that plugin. When I heard of that, in my next Sunday admin meeting I gave my standard speech about not testing anything that runs outside of the game. I specifically warned that tools such as that were liable to be VAC detected. I also urged admins to stay away from tools that claim to be for semi legitimate (non hacking) use, because sometimes they are privately modified to use for more extensive things, and yet have the cover of widespread common "tool". Stay away from that crap.

In the week before moose's ban, we also decided to view fov changes beyond default 90 as illegal, and planned to add that specifically to rules for next season.

Do I know that Moose's VAC ban is from that tool?
No I do not. I have no way of determining what has caused his ban, therefore we must proceed as we would for any player banned by VAC. The complicating factor here is that he was an Admin, though Redrum and Snowblind removed all of his access earlier.

What was Moose's role as admin?
Moose had two roles as an UGC Admin.
1- Player Support and Map Tips Videos - He was the author of Moosetrack videos on our Live video sight, and he was the author of our FAQ video for new team leaders, found on our support page. Moose also helped countless players via steam messaging, to resolve many of their difficulties.
2- Forum Admin. Moose earned much 'affection' for his moderating efforts on our forums.

Moose has never been a full Division Admin at UGC, therefore he was not tasked any match or team responsibilities, he did not set schedules, nor did he resolve disputes. He was not part of our Anti-Cheat Team.

Actions taken on his team.
Moose voluntarily removed himself as leader of his team. Since his former team has no complicity in his VAC ban, and since there are no pending Disputes against his former team, there is no penalty on his former team. That is the same as any other player in similar situations as detailed in this thread: http://www.ugcleague.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6649
Because we are in finals, his former team roster did not need to be locked, nor was it admin moderated to watch for aliased accounts - all rosters are locked at this time.

My personal feelings about Moose
In all the time Moose has been in TF2, he has been a tireless promoter of the TF2 game, giving many hours to helping players and teams to improve, he threw himself enthusiastically into TF2, giving much to our community. That is why he was asked to join our admin team. I thank him for his efforts, i know they have done good.
Do I believe Moose's assertions about his VAC ban?
After 12 years in competitive gaming, I have learned you can never be sure about anyone. I have no reason not to believe him, he has always been a standup guy to me. I am simply appalled to see him in this circumstance, it is very sad. However it is also self inflicted, and I urge all players and admins alike to stay away from anything that might result in a similar outcome.
It is not worth it.

I will post again if we get more details over time.

sdogg2m
April 16th, 2013, 06:28 PM
Excellent post!

If Moose is cleared of all wrong doing and the VAC ban is removed then I hope he will be allowed to re-join the admin staff.

brick
April 16th, 2013, 06:40 PM
Excellent post!

If Moose is cleared of all wrong doing and the VAC ban is removed then I hope he will be allowed to re-join the admin staff.

"Valve has "a zero-tolerance policy for cheating and will not lift VAC bans under any circumstances."[17] This includes account hijacking and other circumstances beyond the control of the account's owner."

R.I.P. Moose.

Havoc
April 16th, 2013, 06:46 PM
This is a great post. Thank you for it, and i wish you the best of luck with the fewest complications. Moose was a great guy and my heart goes out to him and his family.

LegendaryLennon
April 16th, 2013, 06:48 PM
I'm sure moose's family is taking this really hard

flatline
April 16th, 2013, 06:49 PM
"Valve has "a zero-tolerance policy for cheating and will not lift VAC bans under any circumstances."[17] This includes account hijacking and other circumstances beyond the control of the account's owner."

R.I.P. Moose.

One of Valve's stupidest rules? Well, the second part anyway.

Thanks for clearing this up, Forn.

smobo
April 16th, 2013, 06:55 PM
Thanks, Forn. Hopefully the forums can get over this issue.

wills4545
April 16th, 2013, 06:59 PM
Excellent Post.

romananderson
April 16th, 2013, 07:12 PM
"Valve has "a zero-tolerance policy for cheating and will not lift VAC bans under any circumstances."[17] This includes account hijacking and other circumstances beyond the control of the account's owner."

R.I.P. Moose.

This isn't necessarily true. I know players who have been accidentally banned and had their accounts restored without the VAC ban. Took about 2-3 weeks though.

brick
April 16th, 2013, 07:17 PM
This isn't necessarily true. I know players who have been accidentally banned and had their accounts restored without the VAC ban. Took about 2-3 weeks though.

It is for the most part, there have been rare occasions where VAC did ban completely innocent people, but it wasn't just one person for one random reason, it was multiple people for the same reason.

"There have been allegations that VAC has banned users for false positives.
There are six recorded instances of incorrect detections, which were fixed and rescinded:
VAC1: On its initial release, VAC would issue bans for faulty memory. Valve quickly updated VAC to only kick for faulty memory.[19]
VAC1: Running a VAC-protected game through the Cedega software compatibility layer for Linux.[20]
VAC1: An apparent server-side glitch on April 1, 2004.[21]
VAC2: Over two weeks in July 2010, approximately 12,000 owners of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 were banned when Steam updated a DLL file on-disk after it had been loaded into memory by the game. Those affected received a free copy of Left 4 Dead 2 or an extra copy to send as a gift.[22][23][24]
VAC2: In January 2011, owners of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 or Call of Duty: Black Ops were banned due to their computers being infected by the trojan Win32/Spyeye.H.[25]
VAC2: In June 2011, an unknown false positive detection caused a handful of Team Fortress 2 owners to become banned.[26]
There are four recorded instances of game plugins that are not considered cheats triggering bans. These are:
VAC1: HLamp, which allowed the user to control Winamp from the game's interface.[27]
VAC2: The X-Spectate tool, which allowed server administrators to enable a translucent wallhack effect while spectating to help decide if another player was doing the same. Later downgraded to a kick from the server, but bans not rescinded.[28]
VAC2: Some Half-Life modifications, such as Paranoia[29] and Half-Life FX which made changes to the engine's renderer that propagated to multiplayer games. This still triggers a ban and no bans caused by it have been reversed.
VAC and VAC2: sXe Injected, an anti-cheat system for Counter-Strike."

Doesn't say that these bans were ever overturned, just states that those CoD players were compensated in other means.

Ice Crystal
April 16th, 2013, 07:47 PM
His account is dead, not the person.

If the VAC ban is not reversed and we trust that his story is true he could just come back on an alt. Seems like a perfectly good temporary solution.

Even if we don't believe his story and don't want him to come back, he still could on an alt without announcing it, in which case "Moose" would be dead, as well as his admin rights. Worst case scenario, obviously.

NYPD
April 16th, 2013, 07:55 PM
http://www.vacbanned.com/view/statistics

Komrade Swaggipus
April 16th, 2013, 08:26 PM
Save Moose 2013!

Cold--
April 16th, 2013, 08:35 PM
http://www.vacbanned.com/view/statistics

Paraphrasing Forn on this. There are sites (like the one you listed) that contains an incomplete list of VAC bans. No site out there has a complete and 100% accurate list.

DarkNecrid
April 16th, 2013, 09:13 PM
It is for the most part, there have been rare occasions where VAC did ban completely innocent people, but it wasn't just one person for one random reason, it was multiple people for the same reason.

"There have been allegations that VAC has banned users for false positives.
There are six recorded instances of incorrect detections, which were fixed and rescinded:
VAC1: On its initial release, VAC would issue bans for faulty memory. Valve quickly updated VAC to only kick for faulty memory.[19]
VAC1: Running a VAC-protected game through the Cedega software compatibility layer for Linux.[20]
VAC1: An apparent server-side glitch on April 1, 2004.[21]
VAC2: Over two weeks in July 2010, approximately 12,000 owners of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 were banned when Steam updated a DLL file on-disk after it had been loaded into memory by the game. Those affected received a free copy of Left 4 Dead 2 or an extra copy to send as a gift.[22][23][24]
VAC2: In January 2011, owners of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 or Call of Duty: Black Ops were banned due to their computers being infected by the trojan Win32/Spyeye.H.[25]
VAC2: In June 2011, an unknown false positive detection caused a handful of Team Fortress 2 owners to become banned.[26]
There are four recorded instances of game plugins that are not considered cheats triggering bans. These are:
VAC1: HLamp, which allowed the user to control Winamp from the game's interface.[27]
VAC2: The X-Spectate tool, which allowed server administrators to enable a translucent wallhack effect while spectating to help decide if another player was doing the same. Later downgraded to a kick from the server, but bans not rescinded.[28]
VAC2: Some Half-Life modifications, such as Paranoia[29] and Half-Life FX which made changes to the engine's renderer that propagated to multiplayer games. This still triggers a ban and no bans caused by it have been reversed.
VAC and VAC2: sXe Injected, an anti-cheat system for Counter-Strike."

Doesn't say that these bans were ever overturned, just states that those CoD players were compensated in other means.

Think you missed this part:

"There are six recorded instances of incorrect detections, which were fixed and rescinded:" Rescinded means the ban was undone. (I should know, I was one of those people who were banned during the MW2 saga.)

ukm
April 16th, 2013, 09:48 PM
wait did a ugc admin just post something coherent and logical? the fuck?

Firefly
April 16th, 2013, 09:54 PM
wait did a ugc admin just post something coherent and logical? the fuck?

Forn is dabes

Bulow
April 16th, 2013, 10:25 PM
The only thing that would make this better is if Forn made an audio version :3

CRow
April 16th, 2013, 11:14 PM
Based Forn has delivered us from our confusion.

That was one of the most professional, well written explanations I've ever received on such a sensitive topic (not just in TF2). Very well done Forn.

NwADreadnought
April 17th, 2013, 01:26 AM
That was professional. Well done.

stringer_bell
April 17th, 2013, 03:34 AM
The whole "deleted thread" part of the story is conspicuously absent from this write-up.

hein
April 17th, 2013, 11:57 AM
The whole "deleted thread" part of the story is conspicuously absent from this write-up.

That was discussed on a few of the other threads. Moose told me he deleted it because it had cats all over the thread. I told him how that looked and he didnt consider people not knowing. Who knows at this point.

chimpoo
April 17th, 2013, 08:03 PM
What a clear and thorough post. Hope to see more of these in the future to make up for the lack of these in the past.

|eXtv| Kip
April 17th, 2013, 09:59 PM
Moose told me he deleted it because it had cats all over the thread.

This offends me more than the ban.

Cold--
April 17th, 2013, 10:10 PM
This offends me more than the ban.

ha ha ha ha


Oh, Kip.... :3 Thank you for the laugh. :]

jakeowaty
April 18th, 2013, 08:16 AM
Shame. I don't think we'll see him anytime soon or ever really. He knew the consequences, he could do it on an alternative account, although 'hacking' itself is a terrible idea. RIP Moose and his items.

ilikeTF2andpie
April 18th, 2013, 08:44 PM
He should just return on an alt. He shouldn't announce it either. It would ruin his REP already. He should come back as someone else, not Moose. He can also go to Iron as a new player and move his way up. R.I.P Moose.