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View Full Version : Official UGC Ban Policy and VAC Action



romananderson
April 16th, 2013, 01:35 PM
http://www.ugcleague.com/forum/showpost.php?p=66845&postcount=380

finndy
April 16th, 2013, 01:57 PM
Based_forn
Thanks for clarifying

Fornaught
April 16th, 2013, 02:27 PM
Thanks roman, I'll quote it here to make things easier



Sdogg has it right when he says "UGC wouldn't have to ban players for VAC bans. The vac banned accounts could no longer play tf2." We use vac secure in our matches, any player vac banned can not play in a ugc match for the one year duration of that vac ban. We have not felt the need to replicate that ban to our UGC ban list for that reason, valve does it's job and we do ours from direct match behavior. (Our ban for match related cheating is also one year, see below). Certainly it is true that a player can create a new account to get around a vac ban, but they could also do that to get around a league ban. Since TF2 does not have a player tracker database like we did in TFC, spotting those aliased accounts is hit or miss, we would not be able to detect all of them, that is a simple fact.

Up to this point, we only have players on our banlist who have been directly disputed for match play in UGC. We are just beginning to work with ETF2L on replicating bans between our two leagues. So bans will be added from ETF2L over time. At some point I would like to do that with ESEA and cevo as well.

Penalties for banned players as a result of a match dispute
The player banned as a result of a cheat related match dispute is banned in UGC for one year. Any match that is part of the dispute, where cheating has been determined by our AC team, is set to a Loss for the banned player's team. There is no direct punishment for a team who has a player banned for cheating in a match.
There have been rare times when we have found a team to be complicit or have knowledge of a players cheating, that might result in actions on a team. That has not happened in TF2 to this date.
Any other actions on a team would be about separate issues, such as concerns about aliased accounts, or the use of the banned player returning as aliased. There is no direct punishment for a team who has a banned player, but is not otherwise involved with that player's actions. That has always been our policy.

For vac "bans on record"
It is a difficult thing to deal with from a league pov, any policy we have must apply to all players in the same circumstance equally.
First, there is no list of players who are detected by vac, not from Valve or anyone. There are incomplete lists on some sites. Any knowledge of a player's vac banning is accidental, from their steam page, or other places.
Second, Valve does not release any information as to the cause of the ban. This is complicated by the fact that there are vac bans that are reversed over time, with not much more information about that from valve.
This makes it very difficult to have a blanket policy for players who are "VAC banned". To this date, we let steam handle that ban, since the one year duration from Valve is exactly our leagues' ban length for cheating.
Some of our Admins want us to add players with a vac ban to our official league ban list, that has not been the case up to now. It will be difficult to do this uniformly, because in most cases we never know when a player is vac banned, they may just leave on one steam id, and return on another. In some cases with high profile players, we would be aware more directly.

Do I trust a player with a "VAC ban on Record"?
Absolutely not, it is a huge red flag. Any player with that on record is already a suspect, and would be so for their entire playing 'career'. This is why many players in that situation create a new account. From a league POV, a new account is worse than the flagged account, because we have no heads up about that player's history. From a league POV I would rather have players remain on the flagged account when they return from their year Steam ban, so that we and all opponents know their history. That is why a vac ban has not resulted in an immediate ban [by our league]. There are players in UGC who have that on their steam pages, and who do play on their formerly banned accounts.
When we are alerted to a player who is flagged as "vac ban on record", it usually comes from an opponent who is looking at our roster links to the steam pages. That means it is a good thing to have that heads up on a player's history, if the player was on an aliased account no one would know.
When admins are alerted, that player is subject to POV demo requests from admins, that has already happened several times this season.


I hope this clears up some confusion i see in the posts above.
WE are currently dealing with moose's situation, and I will make another post on that as soon as i can

NYPD
April 16th, 2013, 06:32 PM
Maybe the Hookah smoke just is fucking with my brain but if i am getting this right, UGC has no problem with people playing in the league who have been VAC banned for cheating as long as they create a new steam account and they don't get "caught" by admins?

Cold--
April 16th, 2013, 06:35 PM
Maybe the Hookah smoke just is fucking with my brain but if i am getting this right, UGC has no problem with people playing in the league who have been VAC banned for cheating as long as they create a new steam account and they don't get "caught" by admins?

That's not what Forn is saying. He's saying we do not have a means to track them at the moment.

NYPD
April 16th, 2013, 07:01 PM
But if you somehow managed to track a few players who were VAC banned within last few months or so, would you allow them to play in the league?

I'll even give you a live example

This guy got VAC banned the very same night Moose got vac'd
http://steamcommunity.com/id/ifyy

His old VAC banned account
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198044978317

New account
http://steamcommunity.com/id/thatnigify/

If the evidence is there that he has been cheating from last 2 years, would you guys just ignore it and let him play in the league?

romananderson
April 16th, 2013, 07:10 PM
But if you somehow managed to track a few players who were VAC banned within last few months or so, would you allow them to play in the league?

Depends what you meant earlier by "caught by VAC".

If cheating happens in our league, or in any other league (CEVO/ESEA/ETF2L) we will ban that player from our league. Currently however there is no good way for us to share ban databases, so we rely on teams and players to report people who have been banned for cheating to report them to us.

VAC doesn't necessarily happen due to cheating. It can happen for any number of unknown reasons. Therefore our policy is not to ban on VAC alone.

If you are VAC banned in TF2, you are unable to connect to secured servers, and wouldn't be able to play in official matches due to steam blocking you from connecting. Therefore being VAC banned will limit you from playing in our league, but does not warrant a ban.

Hope that clears some things up

brick
April 16th, 2013, 07:27 PM
I think you're missing NYPD's point. Unless, I'm thinking NYPD is trying to say something he isn't.

iFY has made three separate accounts in the last two years because of VAC bans. It's beyond obvious that he uses something that VAC sees as being illegal, it's clear that the dude doesn't give a fuck, considering he's on his third Steam account. Once one account gets banned he makes another. You would think, if he was a legit player, he'd do something differently to figure out why he's being VAC banned. The guy plays in a lot of lobbies, I can tell you this much about him.

1) He has a shit personality
2) He's a shitty player
3) He's fucking stupid

I'm honestly not surprised he's dumb enough to make three accounts in the span of two years AND not make any attempt of changing aliases. However, I am surprised that he has VAC bans because the dude struggles with doing well in lobbies as a Spy, a comm-less pug environment where Spies can have free reign and he's hardly been a thorn in anyone's side who has the tiniest knowledge of game sense.

Would you allow iFY to play in UGC considering he was just recently VAC banned and already previously had another account VAC banned not even a full two years ago? I'm sure that's what NYPD is asking.

NYPD
April 16th, 2013, 07:30 PM
I think you're missing NYPD's point. Unless, I'm thinking NYPD is trying to say something he isn't.

iFY has made three separate accounts in the last two years because of VAC bans. It's beyond obvious that he uses something that VAC sees as being illegal, it's clear that the dude doesn't give a fuck, considering he's on his third Steam account. Once one account gets banned he makes another. You would think, if he was a legit player, he'd do something differently to figure out why he's being VAC banned. The guy plays in a lot of lobbies, I can tell you this much about him.

1) He has a shit personality
2) He's a shitty player
3) He's fucking stupid

I'm honestly not surprised he's dumb enough to make three accounts in the span of two years AND not make any attempt of changing aliases. However, I am surprised that he has VAC bans because the dude struggles with doing well in lobbies as a Spy, a comm-less pug environment where Spies can have free reign and he's hardly been a thorn in anyone's side who has the tiniest knowledge of game sense.

Would you allow iFY to play in UGC considering he was just recently VAC banned and already previously had another account VAC banned not even a full two years ago? I'm sure that's what NYPD is asking.
~~Thankyou ~~

finndy
April 16th, 2013, 08:29 PM
Would you allow iFY to play in UGC considering he was just recently VAC banned and already previously had another account VAC banned not even a full two years ago? I'm sure that's what NYPD is asking.

pls answer, he's making new accounts and shows no plan on stopping
also GG mix for letting this guy to continue to add up and play

RawrSpoon
April 16th, 2013, 10:18 PM
pls answer, he's making new accounts and shows no plan on stopping
also GG mix for letting this guy to continue to add up and play

Worst part is he can continue to keep adding under alts until he gets IP banned from Mix. He can just keep making throwaway accounts and mix rules state he HAS to be priority picked @-@

Cold--
April 16th, 2013, 10:58 PM
Worst part is he can continue to keep adding under alts until he gets IP banned from Mix. He can just keep making throwaway accounts and mix rules state he HAS to be priority picked @-@

This has nothing to do with Mix.

RawrSpoon
April 16th, 2013, 10:59 PM
This has nothing to do with Mix.

yeah I know, I was commenting on the part that he's still allowed to play Mix.

Still, this needs to be addressed. People just making alts to play.

brick
April 16th, 2013, 11:18 PM
This has nothing to do with Mix.

Ok, but what about my question though, Cold? Which was originally NYPD's in all honesty, I won't take credit. May that question be answered and not ignored? I would like some sort of response from someone with some sort of authority. I've seen Admins on the forum, I know they've clicked on the thread and pushed the little back button. It's one of the more legit questions I've ever seen posted on the forum.

It's just disconcerning to me is all. Not trying to be impatient, just I know the Admins have not been too busy to take a minute to read the question and take another two seconds to at least respond with, "This will be talked about this upcoming weekend so that we may hvae a direct solution for when S10 rosters open."

Hildreth
April 16th, 2013, 11:19 PM
D5sl36Vtoa0

Cold--
April 17th, 2013, 12:37 AM
Ok, but what about my question though, Cold? Which was originally NYPD's in all honesty, I won't take credit. May that question be answered and not ignored? I would like some sort of response from someone with some sort of authority. I've seen Admins on the forum, I know they've clicked on the thread and pushed the little back button. It's one of the more legit questions I've ever seen posted on the forum.

It's just disconcerning to me is all. Not trying to be impatient, just I know the Admins have not been too busy to take a minute to read the question and take another two seconds to at least respond with, "This will be talked about this upcoming weekend so that we may hvae a direct solution for when S10 rosters open."


If the evidence is there that he has been cheating from last 2 years, would you guys just ignore it and let him play in the league?

We care very much about keeping cheaters out of UGC. And at this time there is not a TF2 league out there that can track aliases. The resources aren't there. The time it would take for staff to track people down also aren't there.

We ban people who actively cheat in UGC Matches. If you believe someone to be cheating, collect some evidence against the player and send it to our staff. If someone is known to have an old vac ban on record, send us the info and we'll put them on a watch list and collect pov demos. We take cheating seriously and look at every case reported to us.

Contact us!

PoisoCaine
April 17th, 2013, 12:58 AM
Thanks for answering the question

/s

wills4545
April 17th, 2013, 09:28 AM
So, to clarify: Cheaters will not on principle be banned unless they have done so in a UGC environment?

Not arguing or disagreeing, but I want to make sure there's no misunderstandings, at least on my end.

brick
April 17th, 2013, 10:42 AM
So, to clarify: Cheaters will not on principle be banned unless they have done so in a UGC environment?

From what I took from it, we either need complete evidence of them hacking outside of UGC (multiple Steam accounts that are VAC banned is not evidence) or we need to make a dispute against the person if he/she were to ever play in a UGC in order for any demos to be handed over and any banning to be established.

Cold--
April 17th, 2013, 10:53 AM
From what I took from it, we either need complete evidence of them hacking outside of UGC (multiple Steam accounts that are VAC banned is not evidence) or we need to make a dispute against the person if he/she were to ever play in a UGC in order for any demos to be handed over and any banning to be established.

Disputes cannot be made without evidence. The AC team doesn't have time to chase down every accusation. Other than that, you're on track.

+Oil
April 18th, 2013, 04:32 PM
Disputes cannot be made without evidence. The AC team doesn't have time to chase down every accusation. Other than that, you're on track.

getting an aswer from the admins is like playing a question game
should we stick with yes/no questions to make it easier?

Cold--
April 18th, 2013, 04:41 PM
should u ban me? o plesss ban me. my god i love drama and disruptin convarsations
let me put simple, yes / no?

I think the answer is self-evident.