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snowblindfrog
June 3rd, 2016, 12:44 PM
A number of new rules and rewrites of existing rules have been published for the current HL, 6v6 and 4v4 seasons. We've also added a new changelog (http://www.ugcleague.com/tf2rules_changelog.cfm) page to make it easier to see what sections of the rules have changed. The changelog is linked just above Section 1 on each league's rule page.

Also, last season we merged the rulesets from all 3 TF2 leagues into 1 common shared rule base. Rule Sections 1-11 are now identical across all three leagues.

HL Rules (http://www.ugcleague.com/rules_tf2h.cfm)
6v6 Rules (http://www.ugcleague.com/rules_tf26.cfm)
4v4 Rules (http://www.ugcleague.com/rules_tf24.cfm)

Paals
June 3rd, 2016, 03:17 PM
All of Section 6 is the best progress I've seen towards more accountability regarding cheaters so far. Still feel like platinum should be required for all matches to submit demos but this is a good start, and I understand you guys are taking on more work doing this so thanks.

Digresser
June 3rd, 2016, 07:51 PM
Glad to see the cheating rules have been better defined, although I was really hoping some rules to prevent roster hijacking would go up.

I really do think required demos 24 hours after request is too small a time period, though. 72 or even 48 hours would better account to people not being around or able to check their email.

Also, will suspensions carry over to the next season, if there isn't enough time in the current season left for that punishment? If somebody doesn't provide a POV demo for the third time with only one or two weeks left, will that season long suspension apply to next season?

The change log is a great idea. Thanks for making it.

snowblindfrog
June 3rd, 2016, 08:51 PM
Glad to see the cheating rules have been better defined, although I was really hoping some rules to prevent roster hijacking would go up.

I really do think required demos 24 hours after request is too small a time period, though. 72 or even 48 hours would better account to people not being around or able to check their email.

Also, will suspensions carry over to the next season, if there isn't enough time in the current season left for that punishment? If somebody doesn't provide a POV demo for the third time with only one or two weeks left, will that season long suspension apply to next season?

The change log is a great idea. Thanks for making it.


Agreed, changed to 48 hours for demo compliance. Also changed 3rd offense to 8 weeks. These are calendar weeks (not 8 weeks worth of matches). So if you're third offense is in the last week of the season, the off season will help burn up about 5-6 weeks of your sentence. This is how all other bans/suspensions work and frankly it would be more work for us to treat it differently.

DayNife
June 3rd, 2016, 11:01 PM
Maybe relax the rule letting other teams see demos you request. For example, no one on my team is particularly versed with AC things, it would help if we could consult someone like miggy on it before submitting to the admins.

Fyre
June 4th, 2016, 01:37 AM
id like to see the new silver gold/plat player limit be enforced more strictly

maybe someone from UGC can review the rosters of rk and hentai enthusiasts and verify that they are at or below the limit and explain why or why not they are above the limit of gold/plat players

Everton1992
June 5th, 2016, 12:18 AM
(NEW) 3.1.2 Regional placement - Teams must have at least 75% of their players housed in the region that they wish to play in. Example for South American teams wanting to play in North America - Please use this map as a guide. In order to be placed in the North American division, at least 75% of your players must be housed within the Dark Blue and Light Blue sections on the map.

Not a problem this rule but I think there should be some changes in SA, because now they're 10 teams and in case of drops (3 for example), What about the division? Not much information regarding this issue and the admin of SA division What do you say about this?

Sorry my english, but it's necessary answer with respect a South American.

fade_
June 5th, 2016, 01:22 PM
id like to see the new silver gold/plat player limit be enforced more strictly

maybe someone from UGC can review the rosters of rk and hentai enthusiasts and verify that they are at or below the limit and explain why or why not they are above the limit of gold/plat players

there's literally

3 silver placement players

6 gold players that would've placed if dynamovic didn't cheat (who all placed first in silver s17)

1 platinum player

maybe this could be a good time for admins to clear up the rules on roster riding or subbing or whatever and how that counts toward placement in the future

Munec
June 5th, 2016, 03:04 PM
Maybe the admins are being lenient (and rightfully so)?

It's not Roadkill's fault that the division that they should have played in was removed...

fade_
June 5th, 2016, 03:27 PM
considering they've had 6 people from sjw which would've been a placement gold team + 1 plat player, it isn't that ridiculous to place them in plat

Munec
June 5th, 2016, 05:05 PM
considering they've had 6 people from sjw which would've been a placement gold team + 1 plat player, it isn't that ridiculous to place them in plat

It is, though, because they don't belong in Plat. The Roadkill people were subs on SJW, not mains, and SJW didn't place anyway. We can deal with hypotheticals all day but the fact of the matter is that they count as Gold players, not Plat players. Gold was the perfect division for them to play in. They don't belong in Plat or Silver, but they fit even less in Plat than they do in Silver.

fade_
June 5th, 2016, 06:24 PM
wtf r u saying

ok so are you saying that subs should not count as roster history because there is no way to verify that they are subs or roster riders or whatever without hunting down every single scrim log in which any of them played in

sjw would have placed second if dynamovic had not been banned because they beat gwmi and were in finals there's nothing hypothetical about it

point being that there has to be a consequence for free medals

Dr. Alto H. Clef
June 5th, 2016, 06:33 PM
ok so are you saying that subs should not count as roster history because there is no way to verify that they are subs or roster riders or whatever without hunting down every single scrim log in which any of them played in

http://puu.sh/pi4lC/dca10c1638.png

crab_f
June 5th, 2016, 06:38 PM
hi friendly reminder that it doesn't fucking matter if you were subbing or roster riding, if you were in a div and have a medal/profile honors for being in the div you are considered having experience in that div and it's absolutely ridiculous to say that admins should be lenient to people who try to use subbing/riding as an excuse for not actually being at that div

Munec
June 5th, 2016, 06:41 PM
wtf r u saying

ok so are you saying that subs should not count as roster history because there is no way to verify that they are subs or roster riders or whatever without hunting down every single scrim log in which any of them played in

That's not at all what I'm saying, but as a quick aside it's really easy to determine if someone is a main or a sub/roster rider in Gold/Plat thanks to http://stats.playcomp.tf/.

Back on topic: SJW would have placed if Dynamovic hadn't cheated.

But they didn't, because he did. Anything else is a hypothetical situation. Therefore they count as Gold, not Plat.

We could talk about how maybe if they counted as Plat then they wouldn't have been able to form in the first place because they would have been forced into Plat, or maybe if Gold wasn't removed then we wouldn't have to worry about the experience on their roster. But those are all hypotheticals and there's no point in fixating on them.

In its current formation, Roadkill shouldn't be in Plat, and there isn't a Gold division to play in. That leaves them in Silver.



point being that there has to be a consequence for free medals

I thought we were talking about Roadkill's Gold/Plat experience, not punishing(?) subs and roster riders?

I'll just edit this in because I guess my earlier post was confusing.


hi friendly reminder that it doesn't fucking matter if you were subbing or roster riding, if you were in a div and have a medal/profile honors for being in the div you are considered having experience in that div and it's absolutely ridiculous to say that admins should be lenient to people who try to use subbing/riding as an excuse for not actually being at that div

I'm not saying that they should be lenient because they subbed or roster rode, I'm saying they should be lenient because they removed Gold two weeks before the season started.

crab_f
June 5th, 2016, 06:52 PM
no you're definitely saying they're being lenient for being roster riders/subs because their roster exp is enough to put them in plat

the silver limit is 4 gold or 2/2 plat/gold

Munec
June 5th, 2016, 06:58 PM
no you're definitely saying they're being lenient for being roster riders/subs because their roster exp is enough to put them in plat

the silver limit is 4 gold or 2/2 plat/gold

Their roster experience is enough to keep them out of Silver, which was why they were placed in Gold.

Then Gold got removed, and they were moved up to Plat. Did you already forget the complete shitstorm that that started because they didn't belong there?

So now they're back in Silver because they definitely shouldn't be in Plat, and the rules should be ignored because the alternative is basically to kill the team. If there had been a bit of a warning before Gold was removed which would let them make some roster changes, that would be one thing. But the decision was implemented unexpectedly and now they're stuck between divs.

Fyre
June 5th, 2016, 07:02 PM
there was no shitstorm

literally all it was was a few roadkill players saying they want to be in silver

Vipa
June 5th, 2016, 07:05 PM
ok lets get one thing straight
if dynamo hadnt cheated gwmi would have easily won that match (trust me i played in it), therefore sjw wouldn't have placed anyway

are u really trying to get rk moved to plat we already had this discussion lol

crab_f
June 5th, 2016, 07:36 PM
hm theyre definitely breaking boundaries in the roster rules but you see if they're objectively not good they shouldn't be in the div the rules say they should be in

like remember when a bunch of people said they may not be very good, i mean why would people say something which is wrong or is in defiance of set-in-stone rules? that's just insane to me



(NEW) For HL S19, the Gold division has been removed from North America. With the absence of Gold, the restrictions of Gold & Platinum players allowed into Silver will be relaxed to 4 Gold players per team (or 2 Gold players and 2 Platinum players).
don't address this because they might not be plat ready you see, it's not their fault they are breaking the limits

fade_
June 5th, 2016, 07:53 PM
why would u choose to backup in gold

then complain about not being able to play silver

Spu~
June 5th, 2016, 11:28 PM
so roadkill gets to have like 3 more gold players than everyone else because before gold was dissolved they accidentally had too many gold players. so now they get to have more gold players than everyone else??

I don't think this is a fair ruleset for silver, my team doesn't meet these requirements that were made 3 DAYS BEFORE week 1 match. it doesn't make sense to make me cut players i've had for a while when roadkill gets off free.

What I think makes sense is to allow teams that have already passed the limits to keep their current roster, but not add any more players that count as gold/plat

VoxDei
June 5th, 2016, 11:50 PM
Ok here's a brief synopsis because people seem out of the loop.

Yeah, it sucks that a team as well formed has RK is playing in Silver and will likely play a lot of teams they outmatch.
It also sucks that their other option was to play in plat and play a lot of teams that outmatch them.
Due to pressure, a team vote, a flip of a coin, or some satantic ritual by the current plat teams, RK decided to move down to Silver. This was a decision that they were allowed to be made because the "in-between" teams were given the choice between Silver or Plat.

This has been discussed ad nauseum and the vocal members of the community were very, very adament about RK being placed in Silver.
Point is, the decision has been made. There have been a lot of special cases this season, and imo RK choosing to play Silver is no different than PLM wanting to play in Plat. PLM even being considered for plat was a special case, and ultimately the team decided to play in Silver or dropped (tbh I don't remember.)
The last sentence applies for every destined-for-Gold team besides Water Under Abridge because they chose to remain in Plat. The "special case" bit still applies.

-----------

New thought:
I don't know if this was an idea, a rumor, or something that will be enacted for this season, but from my understanding there are going to be two Silver post-season brackets to put a band-aid on a rough situation for Silver this season. It's not perfect, but perhaps it's a consolation for the teams who are feeling discouraged about their placement chances.

-----------

Spu edited his post, so I'd like to also add on to what he mentions here:



I don't think this is a fair ruleset for silver, my team doesn't meet these requirements that were made 3 DAYS BEFORE week 1 match. it doesn't make sense to make me cut players i've had for a while when roadkill gets off free.


From this perspective, I can see the issue. I would like to see what would happen to a Silver team never considered for Plat who break the roster rules. It's an honest concern as to how the admins would choose to handle the team.



What I think makes sense is to allow teams that have already passed the limits to keep their current roster, but not add any more players that count as gold/plat


As long as there is a deadline to prevent some retarded stack of "Gold-but-never-plat players" from forming within a week, that seems like a good start.

brick
June 5th, 2016, 11:52 PM
Their roster experience is enough to keep them out of Silver, which was why they were placed in Gold.

Then Gold got removed, and they were moved up to Plat. Did you already forget the complete shitstorm that that started because they didn't belong there?

So now they're back in Silver because they definitely shouldn't be in Plat, and the rules should be ignored because the alternative is basically to kill the team. If there had been a bit of a warning before Gold was removed which would let them make some roster changes, that would be one thing. But the decision was implemented unexpectedly and now they're stuck between divs.

Literally this. Just deal with it, Spu. Shit happened this season unfairly to both Silver and Gold teams, all we can do is just let it slide this season and fix it for future seasons. If anything, the Admins learned a lot on what not to do, although, with 18 seasons of experience, you'd think they'd realize a change this drastic should have been more transparent in the first place, but that's UGC's decision and ultimately their fault, not the teams. Roadkill has no business in Plat despite what their "roster experience" says. Trust me, half the dudes on that team would barely break Mid-Gold on their own.

Gabe_
June 6th, 2016, 12:38 PM
I'm a little confused here. I have four gold players on my roster in silver, and I just removed my sub from my roster with gold exp from 4 seasons ago because after reading the new rules, it stated "Teams are permitted to have no more than 3 Gold players (or 1 Gold player and 1 Platinum player)". Now I'm reading the contradicting paragraph that states "Silver will be relaxed to 4 Gold players per team (or 2 Gold players and 2 Platinum players)."

I assume the latter is the rule that will be enforced, but can someone confirm this for me so my team doesn't get in trouble for too many gold players?

Kumori
June 6th, 2016, 01:01 PM
I'm a little confused here. I have four gold players on my roster in silver, and I just removed my sub from my roster with gold exp from 4 seasons ago because after reading the new rules, it stated "Teams are permitted to have no more than 3 Gold players (or 1 Gold player and 1 Platinum player)". Now I'm reading the contradicting paragraph that states "Silver will be relaxed to 4 Gold players per team (or 2 Gold players and 2 Platinum players)."

I assume the latter is the rule that will be enforced, but can someone confirm this for me so my team doesn't get in trouble for too many gold players?

This is due to the absense of Gold.

As per 3.1.1 General placement guidelines

Silver - Is the seeding division for Gold. Rosters are expected to be a mix of players with experience on mid to low Gold teams, established Silver teams and high Steel teams. Teams are permitted to have no more than 3 Gold players (or 1 Gold player and 1 Platinum player). ESEA-I and ETF2L Premiership players are not permitted to play in Silver. See rule 3.2 for more information.

For HL S19, the Gold division has been removed from North America. With the absence of Gold, the restrictions of Gold & Platinum players allowed into Silver will be relaxed to 4 Gold players per team (or 2 Gold players and 2 Platinum players).

Quantic
June 7th, 2016, 02:32 PM
Not a problem this rule but I think there should be some changes in SA, because now they're 10 teams and in case of drops (3 for example), What about the division? Not much information regarding this issue and the admin of SA division What do you say about this?

Sorry my english, but it's necessary answer with respect a South American.

In case too many teams drop during the course of a season to the point no more unique matchups become possible, matchups could be repeated. This was done once in 6s for the week 8 schedule a few seasons ago.