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Thread: pl_vigil

  1. #1

    Post pl_vigil

    Hi all!

    It's been a while since an update of this map (originally named pl_dawns_vigil) dropped, but I've been at work detailing the last point, and even making a model for the dome of the observatory. As it gets closer to the end of the year I'm hoping that I'll be able to update it a bit more frequently as uni finishes for the year. Since I'm now moving into late alpha (becoming beta once the map has been textured), I hope that a few of you will have a run around on it, and even try some pugs or scrims on it.

    Current Version: pl_vigil_b5 (Download from TF2Maps)



    Screenshots available here.

    Changes from B4A to B5:
    - Added window on the outside of I.T.
    - Added pipes around pit that can be used to walk around the edge
    - Fixed some clipping
    - Added HDR lighting
    - Added some more detailing
    Last edited by theatreTECHIE; June 21st, 2017 at 10:35 PM.

  2. #2

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    Update to A15A:
    - Fixed visual glitch in final involving the 3D skybox
    - Some more detailing around 3rd

    Download from TF2Maps

    Screenshots here

  3. #3

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    Update to Beta!

    Download here

    Pictures here

    Changes:
    - Initial art pass of whole map
    - Changed some geometry to allow for detailing
    - Clipping improvements
    Last edited by theatreTECHIE; February 25th, 2017 at 05:23 PM.

  4. #4

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    Has anyone tried this map out in a scrim before?

  5. #5

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    First point looks unholdable but that's every PL map.

    Second point looks like a re-imagining of Upward second and it's really cool and I really like it. There's a big hill that I would assume the combo holds behind, and a tunnel thing that the cart goes through. But the tunnel also goes to a side route that leads right to where the combo would hold. The "spire" thing is really offensively-sided, and I can't decide if that's a good or bad thing.

    Third point looks like there's only one place to hold the combo, and that's behind the big line of rocks behind the point.

    Last looks like Borneo and Upward last had a baby. It seems REALLY camp-able, though, if you get in that far. Like, Borneo camp-able. Maybe that was intended. It's nice that the cart has a rounding thing so that you can sneak capture time easier, though, which is not like Borneo last. And a lot of close paths to agress with, which is also unlike Borneo last.

    Actually the more I look at third the more I feel like it would play like Upward third, it feels like it's a battle against the whole defense to push the cart and you can't get good position to uber without first taking out the Sniper. Engineer would probably play back a bit and catch people overextending, while the flank does whatever.

    It's probably a stretch, but this map reminds me of Upward.

  6. #6
    Member zacmac's Avatar
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    PURPLEMUSHROOM4 back at it with a look at ur map

    1st reminds me of borneo 2nd, and thats good. the blu sniper has to walk a good way to shut down an aggressive combo hold, and the push seems more predicated on keeping numbers alive rather than pure svs. if you get pinched by either sniper, it's your fault for staying in too long, but it seems possible to hold for at least 2 uber exchanges without having to throw the point completely like you do with swiftwater (why do we still play swiftwater its shit besides the 4th pt)

    2nd is infuckingcredible. its what you want out of a pl/ad map. blu has to play to their advantages (like a hybrid of bwater 1st and upward 2nd) and red has to actively rotate to shut them down, due to the really accessible side tunnel. there's some nice verticality too which will allow for some really food flank-heavy plays to come out from either team. only one out of the 3 lanes is really catering to snipers, which are usually the bane of fun in a pl map.

    3rd's really nice as well as it rewards red for having good sniper rotations, as not all areas can be covered at once or by a really quick 2 second rotation due to the topography of the map. its more static than 2nd but thats a good thing in some ways. it also rewards red for playing aggressively if possible, but not too aggressive that you get caught out. tracks is probably a little too unadvantageous but that can lead to some really good cart bitch/spy plays. maybe taking the "hill" out of the tracks may be a good option and making it more of a gradual ascent.

    last is a more dynamic version of upward's last where both red has more opportunity to take the 2 upper spots in the map a lot easier than with upward, where you either have to go through tracks or lower. its also great for blu because batts is accessible to practically all classes. this will decentralize places where team fights happen and reward the team with the better post ubers, flanks, and rotations.

    this map is really nice by allowing every single push from blu to be, theorhetically, executed without taking out the sniper (of course you should do that anyway). it's like steel in that regard.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by whymeo View Post
    Has anyone tried this map out in a scrim before?
    It's been tested in a few pugs, but not nearly enough for comp yet. There are a few visual glitches that I'll be patching up just after Christmas (chicken wire in blu spawn and nodraw outside red's last spawn), but after that I'll try to get more pugs and scrims on it to be tested. It has been run practically every night for the last six months on Smurfy servers in Australia though, so in pubs it is fairly solid.

    If anyone can get a scrim on the map and link me the demo, or even just feedback from the scrim, that would be great. After all, the more testing the better.

    Also thanks for the feedback IcedKappa and zacmac. I really do appreciate you guys taking the time to look at the map.

  8. #8

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    Visual glitch update

    Download here

    Pictures here

    Changes:
    - Fixed visual glitches
    Last edited by theatreTECHIE; February 25th, 2017 at 05:22 PM.

  9. #9

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    Update to B2

    Download Here

    Screenshots available here

    Changes:
    - More details around the map
    - Some more prop fades (even more will come in later versions)
    - Minor geometry rework around deathpits (not gameplay-changing)
    Last edited by theatreTECHIE; March 3rd, 2017 at 04:24 AM.

  10. #10
    Member Karl's Avatar
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    Will post after dK playtests it. Also any plat teams want to scrim us on this map?

  11. #11

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    Update to B2A

    Download Here

    Screenshots available here.

    Changes:
    - Unclipped top of wall on third with "Crummy's Burgers" sign on it
    - Added trigger_push to the top of the same wall to disallow people standing on it
    - Added a shelf in B red house
    - Unclipped top of shelf in room between B and C
    - Fixed displacement bug on final
    - Added no-build to out of bounds area on B to prevent engineers building up there
    - Added small gap in skybox on second to allow for better visuals
    - Added more hint brushes to hopefully improve framerates around second
    - Minor detail improvements
    Last edited by theatreTECHIE; April 23rd, 2017 at 03:34 AM.

  12. #12

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    played this map in euro and it gave me aids but that might just be the euros

    really dislike how easy it is for red flank to harass offense in that side house due to the super awkward angles and ways to get into it, if you force them out and then focus on main they go right back in since you don't have vision and own you on cart. also it felt like upward first in the way that a defense sniper who doesn't go down can lock out the point but at least upward first gives offense sniper more and better angles to peek from

    2nd was decent, the shutter right behind where combo holds feels awkward as hell though and the fact that a respawning red player can't really see that well onto the hill led to some stupid shit happening. the side flank that offense has (comparable to u-turn/sidetunnel on upward 2nd) feels too safe and quick for offense whereas u-turn was a really good flank but also a veritable death trap if you got caught in it

    3rd actually felt it played pretty decently considering how i normally hate points/maps with rollback ramps on them. that being said, considering how offense seems to hold in the house by the 2nd shutter, having to deal with things peeking you through the main doors by the tracks, the far left flank, and the lower route meant things would often get really hectic and it punished offense for holding even a little amount of ground, most noticeablely the far left flank due to the total lack of vision, slight height disadvantage and it being at a really (here's that word again) awkward distance from the regular area, just far enough that they can't be immediately punished but close enough that they can do meaningful damage with the element or surprise. Something else that pushing this point made me realize: one of the most interesting things about upward 3rd is that offense pushes close (choke to uturn) but the objective is far (spiral/coaster/etc). here offense is encouraged to push far (left side) whereas the objective is close, meaning it's really hard to sync a push with your flank on cart because defense can easily focus cart first and deal with the afteruber with numbers. Also, red spawn is frighteningly close.

    not a big fan of last. the point being so small makes it slightly easier to push, but the fact that the map itself is so goddamn tiny means a wipe on first will cost you 2nd and even a lot of 3rd. if you don't wipe, though, it's pretty ridiculous that offense has to spend most of their time either sitting in a sightline or with their backs to a cliff, only to lead to more chokepoints and sightlines. plays to sniper way too much as an uncontested offense sniper by the cliff will shut down all of red and vice versa. I really like that the rollback ramp isn't directly in front of the pit like upward is, but it still feels a tad too long. red's easy access to the cliff through the left (from offense perspective) flank makes using the close IT room route into last to push really dangerous because you end up getting completely wrapped if you choose to bring flank classes in on an uber and then you're fighting 270 degrees of enemies.

    Overall, I think it's got some potential but as it is, it feels too small and way too punishing of any mistakes, especially mistakes involving snipers. I never actually thought i'd be saying i'd want the track distance between points to be increased, but I think that'd it be a good thing especially 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. A lot of the flank routes seem either too safe (side tunnel, far left 3rd) or too dangerous (cliff at last). Design wise I think it takes a lot from upward but in terms of actually playing it, it feels kinda like millstone due to the short cap times, weird holding angles and interesting take on sightlines. Maybe i'm just more experienced with millstone, but it felt like you could make holds on every point (including 3rd if you're ballsy enough, was actually one of the most brutal if you had a better sniper) at the cost of other holds. Vigil feels like badwater or even barnblitz where making a single mistake could get you rolled into last or even through last if you're unable to regroup. I think having fast games is fine (another plus of millstone) but millstone reconciled that with a super long stretch of track between 2nd and 4th which made sure that any competent team would get something of a hold up on last. I think most of my issues come down to how short the track is, honestly.

    Also, the trigger_push on that one wall is awkward as hell, and even if you had to stick some ^ shaped roof on top of the wall, it'd be a lot better.

  13. #13

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    Update to B3

    Download Here

    Screenshots available here.

    Changes:
    - Added jump in first house to get to the upper area from the lower area
    - Added rocks on first to allow players to jump up onto the raised areas from closer to the point
    - Added cutout on 1st to allow red to spam first with a bit more cover
    - Added rocks on first to decrease blu sniper's vision of red backing out of first forward hold
    - Added collision on the window sills on first
    - Added crates leading up to the second hill from first to give more cover around that area
    - Changed hilltop structure on second, turning it into a house with a sloped roof and removing the wall
    - Added wall on cliff structure
    - Added railing along the back part of the second cliff
    - Raised height of tunnel roof on second
    - Added flank on third to allow blu flank to get into the third cap area easier in competitive matches
    - Changed trigger push on top of the wall on third - now not so strong
    - Added rock jump up to the third cliff from the large ammo pack
    - Added railing on the flank cliff on last
    - Increased height of sloped section of roof on the flank cliff of last
    - Decreased size of doorway from last to the flank cliff
    - Added area under sentry platform to give a possible decloak spot for blu spies
    - Indented wall along the back area of last to give more room for players (especially blu spies) to move around
    - Removed the force respawn for red after a point is capped
    - Added some more details around the map including:
    - Dome doors made by MaccyF (they even open as the cart gets into the last area!)
    - Telescope made by Freyja
    - Cloud scrolling textures in the deathpits made by myself​
    Last edited by theatreTECHIE; April 29th, 2017 at 05:24 AM.

  14. #14

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    Update to B3A

    Download Here

    Screenshots available here.

    Changes:
    - Replaced stairs in third tunnel with crate jump
    - Removed two windows near last, overlooking the flank
    - Added a hazard sign to third cliff
    - Adjusted handrails on D flank cliff
    - Fixed some bugs from the previous version
    Last edited by theatreTECHIE; April 30th, 2017 at 08:53 PM.

  15. #15

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    The crate jump is an interesting way of trying to relieve the issue with the tunnel, I would be interested in seeing how well it would work as a fix. Currently, though, it seems that the ramp is still there! It's invisible, of course. Please let me know how you developed invisible ramp technology, I'm very interested.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by IcedKappa; April 29th, 2017 at 07:05 AM.

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